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	<title>Comments on: Leaving The Game Is Not Always Weakness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1474" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474</link>
	<description>Virtual worlds, massive multiplayer games and assorted ramblings</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:05:34 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Petter</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1624</link>
		<dc:creator>Petter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1624</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I believe you&#039;re right there - I read through this entry again yesterday and got the feeling that I might have lost my original point. This was more a reaction to SynCaine, that I don&#039;t think that people should be labeled as &quot;weak&quot; if they decide to leave the game after a scam like this.

Thanks for pointing it out in a clear way. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I believe you&#8217;re right there &#8211; I read through this entry again yesterday and got the feeling that I might have lost my original point. This was more a reaction to SynCaine, that I don&#8217;t think that people should be labeled as &#8220;weak&#8221; if they decide to leave the game after a scam like this.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing it out in a clear way. <img src='http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Callan S.</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1623</link>
		<dc:creator>Callan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1623</guid>
		<description>I think your mixing up what he did and how he treated people.

I don&#039;t think the pixels matter except in a game way, and if the way he got them was legitimate to the game, then your the one in the wrong to complain about that.

However, the way he was talking to people, he treated them as less than human. Obviously treating other people as less than human is not on. Clearly you can&#039;t chuck him out of the game, so you realise the game developers let people like this on. Then you realise all mmorpgs let people like this on.

Anyway, you did treat them seperately at the start but in the comments your starting to mix his misstreatment with what he actually did.

Personally I think his approach wasn&#039;t legitimate, but given that they handed him the vault keys, if he&#039;d been polite and perhaps just spammed chat about how awesome he was, I&#039;d even cheer him a bit because talking yourself up isn&#039;t treating others as less than human. But when he&#039;s a rude scumbag - well, he&#039;s lost one person who would have cheered him on his exploits. So he&#039;s a loser after all.

Frankly I wonder if he can&#039;t imagine himself as being awesome - they only way he can make himself bigger is by trying to make others smaller than him. Sad twit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your mixing up what he did and how he treated people.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the pixels matter except in a game way, and if the way he got them was legitimate to the game, then your the one in the wrong to complain about that.</p>
<p>However, the way he was talking to people, he treated them as less than human. Obviously treating other people as less than human is not on. Clearly you can&#8217;t chuck him out of the game, so you realise the game developers let people like this on. Then you realise all mmorpgs let people like this on.</p>
<p>Anyway, you did treat them seperately at the start but in the comments your starting to mix his misstreatment with what he actually did.</p>
<p>Personally I think his approach wasn&#8217;t legitimate, but given that they handed him the vault keys, if he&#8217;d been polite and perhaps just spammed chat about how awesome he was, I&#8217;d even cheer him a bit because talking yourself up isn&#8217;t treating others as less than human. But when he&#8217;s a rude scumbag &#8211; well, he&#8217;s lost one person who would have cheered him on his exploits. So he&#8217;s a loser after all.</p>
<p>Frankly I wonder if he can&#8217;t imagine himself as being awesome &#8211; they only way he can make himself bigger is by trying to make others smaller than him. Sad twit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ganking, Stealing &#38; Training: Bullying Or Viable Strategies? - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1622</link>
		<dc:creator>Ganking, Stealing &#38; Training: Bullying Or Viable Strategies? - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1622</guid>
		<description>[...] over at Don&#8217;t Fear the Mutant had an interesting post about his reaction to some players exploiting others (in particular to some bank heists in Darkfall). It got me thinking about ganking and stealing and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] over at Don&#8217;t Fear the Mutant had an interesting post about his reaction to some players exploiting others (in particular to some bank heists in Darkfall). It got me thinking about ganking and stealing and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Petter</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1621</link>
		<dc:creator>Petter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1621</guid>
		<description>Trust me, that&#039;s as common on RP-servers as on any other servers. Especially in WoW, where the whole concept of &quot;RP-servers&quot; has been ruined. There&#039;s no RP on them anymore, except between small cabals of players. Sad, but true.

About the DK-thing, I am not a big fan of them either. It&#039;s the 55 free levels that would make me consider rolling an alt on your server. I am not rolling another level 1 character in WoW, ever again. Perhaps a worgen or goblin, but not one of the current races. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trust me, that&#8217;s as common on RP-servers as on any other servers. Especially in WoW, where the whole concept of &#8220;RP-servers&#8221; has been ruined. There&#8217;s no RP on them anymore, except between small cabals of players. Sad, but true.</p>
<p>About the DK-thing, I am not a big fan of them either. It&#8217;s the 55 free levels that would make me consider rolling an alt on your server. I am not rolling another level 1 character in WoW, ever again. Perhaps a worgen or goblin, but not one of the current races. <img src='http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Petter</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1620</link>
		<dc:creator>Petter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1620</guid>
		<description>The problem here was the way he did it - nothing sandbox about it. This could have happened in Darkfall, EVE, World of Warcraft, EverQuest II...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here was the way he did it &#8211; nothing sandbox about it. This could have happened in Darkfall, EVE, World of Warcraft, EverQuest II&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: We Fly Spitfires</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1618</link>
		<dc:creator>We Fly Spitfires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1618</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting because to me ganking and bank robbing fall into two separate categories. I view ganking as lame and reprehensible whereas I think robbing is a bank is actually pretty cool and well within the &quot;rules&quot; of sandbox games like Darkfall and EVE Online. I guess the main difference to me is that ganking doesn&#039;t give the defendant any chance whereas robbing a bank does. The guy managed to pull it off because essentially guilds let him do it and with the right &quot;security&quot; it&#039;s easy to prevent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting because to me ganking and bank robbing fall into two separate categories. I view ganking as lame and reprehensible whereas I think robbing is a bank is actually pretty cool and well within the &#8220;rules&#8221; of sandbox games like Darkfall and EVE Online. I guess the main difference to me is that ganking doesn&#8217;t give the defendant any chance whereas robbing a bank does. The guy managed to pull it off because essentially guilds let him do it and with the right &#8220;security&#8221; it&#8217;s easy to prevent.</p>
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		<title>By: Ella</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1614</link>
		<dc:creator>Ella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1614</guid>
		<description>Oh, and as for the DK idea...

I&#039;ve spent far too many PuGs with DK tanks, and Luke going &quot;Death Knights... I -hate- them&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and as for the DK idea&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spent far too many PuGs with DK tanks, and Luke going &#8220;Death Knights&#8230; I -hate- them&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Petter</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1613</link>
		<dc:creator>Petter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1613</guid>
		<description>Well, yeah. Those guys made some really stupid decisions, I&#039;m not denying that. The DF community will probably turn as paranoid as the EVE players, if they are not already. But he did aim to do just that, a quick get-in get-out by using handles resembling the guild leaders&#039;.

Actually, this was more a reaction to you calling the people that leave DF because they can&#039;t take the heat. The heat here was an idiot who ruined peoples&#039; guilds because he felt like it, a griefer without a proper agenda. That&#039;s what I mean - I am defending the ones that left because they had been griefed. That could have happened in any game, including WoW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yeah. Those guys made some really stupid decisions, I&#8217;m not denying that. The DF community will probably turn as paranoid as the EVE players, if they are not already. But he did aim to do just that, a quick get-in get-out by using handles resembling the guild leaders&#8217;.</p>
<p>Actually, this was more a reaction to you calling the people that leave DF because they can&#8217;t take the heat. The heat here was an idiot who ruined peoples&#8217; guilds because he felt like it, a griefer without a proper agenda. That&#8217;s what I mean &#8211; I am defending the ones that left because they had been griefed. That could have happened in any game, including WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Ella</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1612</link>
		<dc:creator>Ella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1612</guid>
		<description>Part of the guild drama was the gm emptying the bank of anything not useful for raids, and selling it - without even consulting officers or guild members. My character deposited most stuff in the guild bank that she didn&#039;t need - and most of the outcome of professional work too (potions, elixirs etc). That irked me, but not more than I could handle, and definately not to a level where I considering QQ - I did however consider leaving the guild.

For me it&#039;s the exertion of power in any form, the social manipulation I see in players that sometimes disturbs me about these games - I guess this is more prominent on non-RP servers. 
I&#039;ve always talked about the &quot;outsider&#039;s hierarchy&quot; (nerds, women, religion) , and how the model of normative social structures they are not part of get construed and warped when these social groups try to find their own framework for interaction. 
The MMO constructed society is one of these, and it can be brutal. 
I don&#039;t agree with the &quot;You&#039;re weak for leaving&quot;, and I worry that the people who are more apt to engineer these situations and exploit the players who are there to play the game without greater schemes are also the loudest and most tone-setting in the way the community is built.

I could write a whole essay on fascist structures and MMOs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the guild drama was the gm emptying the bank of anything not useful for raids, and selling it &#8211; without even consulting officers or guild members. My character deposited most stuff in the guild bank that she didn&#8217;t need &#8211; and most of the outcome of professional work too (potions, elixirs etc). That irked me, but not more than I could handle, and definately not to a level where I considering QQ &#8211; I did however consider leaving the guild.</p>
<p>For me it&#8217;s the exertion of power in any form, the social manipulation I see in players that sometimes disturbs me about these games &#8211; I guess this is more prominent on non-RP servers.<br />
I&#8217;ve always talked about the &#8220;outsider&#8217;s hierarchy&#8221; (nerds, women, religion) , and how the model of normative social structures they are not part of get construed and warped when these social groups try to find their own framework for interaction.<br />
The MMO constructed society is one of these, and it can be brutal.<br />
I don&#8217;t agree with the &#8220;You&#8217;re weak for leaving&#8221;, and I worry that the people who are more apt to engineer these situations and exploit the players who are there to play the game without greater schemes are also the loudest and most tone-setting in the way the community is built.</p>
<p>I could write a whole essay on fascist structures and MMOs.</p>
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		<title>By: SynCaine</title>
		<link>http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474&#038;cpage=1#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>SynCaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/?p=1474#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>Here is why Darwoth did not spend months infiltrating a clan to get bank access like the GHSC did, HE DID NOT NEED TO. People were promoting him to the top position in a major clan after just a few minutes of in-game typing, and when that works (20+ times), why would you stop and instead slowly try to make your way in.

His response to people is harsh, without doubt, but it&#039;s his victims that are really to blame here. When you make it THAT easy to get robbed, you are asking for it (notice he targets mass-recruiting clans specifically)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is why Darwoth did not spend months infiltrating a clan to get bank access like the GHSC did, HE DID NOT NEED TO. People were promoting him to the top position in a major clan after just a few minutes of in-game typing, and when that works (20+ times), why would you stop and instead slowly try to make your way in.</p>
<p>His response to people is harsh, without doubt, but it&#8217;s his victims that are really to blame here. When you make it THAT easy to get robbed, you are asking for it (notice he targets mass-recruiting clans specifically)</p>
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